On Building Talents with Refugees and Migrants - A Conversation with Ana Maria Angarita & Isabel Brücher

Episode Transcript

Claire  00:07

Hi everyone, and welcome to Narratives of Purpose Podcast, a place where we discuss how ordinary people are making extraordinary social impact. I am Claire Murigande, your host on this show. In this new episode, and for the first time on the podcast, I don't have one, but two guests. They are Ana Maria Angarita and Isabel Brücher. Both Ana Maria and Isabel are two of the co-founders of Capacity Zurich. Capacity is a nonprofit, talent and startup incubator for people with refugee and migrant backgrounds based in Zurich. Our discussion today is centred around social entrepreneurship and inclusion, but also changing mindsets, and building talents. These themes and many more are at the heart of Capacity's work. It's going to be a great and very insightful conversation with Ana Maria and Isabel. And I'm sure you will enjoy it. Welcome, ladies.

 

Isabel  01:14

Thank you very much.

 

Ana Maria  01:15

Pleasure to be here.

 

Claire  01:16

It's really great to have you both today. And thank you so much for accepting my invitation. You're both co founders of Capacity Zurich. But since I haven't known you very well, I'd like to leave you the stage and introduce yourself. So perhaps Ana Maria can start?

 

Ana Maria  01:32

Yes, sure. Thank you, Claire. I am originally from Colombia. My background is in migration and social entrepreneurship. Throughout my career, I've had the opportunity to work with different international organisations in different countries. I've also had experience in marketing and building international networks across sectors. Also, I've had the chance to live in different countries from Colombia to the US from the US to Switzerland and for a while India and then back in Switzerland

 

Claire  02:08

Isabel, would you like to introduce yourself?

 

Isabel  02:11

Sure, thank you. I am half German, half Colombian, and grew up in Colombia, but with a very strong German heritage there. I am actually an architect, and I specialise in conservation of historical buildings. I did my degree here in Switzerland, my specialisation, but I lived as well in many countries. After finishing my studies in Colombia, I went to the United States and lived there for three years, and then to Germany, where I lived for three years working as an architect, and then I came to Switzerland almost 20 years ago.

 

Claire  02:53

So I see that you have similar backgrounds, both from Colombia, partly from Colombia, and also lived in the US and now in Switzerland. So I think you have an interesting perspective on Swiss society as well, probably we'll come back to that later on. Now, let me start with the discussion. And let's talk about Capacity Zurich. I was researching recently, and I saw on your website that you're basically a talent and startup incubator for people with refugee and migrant backgrounds. So as you said, you help migrants here in Switzerland. So can you tell me maybe I'll start with Isabel this time? How did you get involved with Capacity?

 

Isabel  03:33

Yeah, that's an interesting story. I have to start a little bit backwards. When I came to Switzerland, I was an independent architect for a couple of years. When my children were growing up in primary school, I found it very challenging to work as an independent architect, and at the same time, be there for my kids. So I decided to leave my office and started volunteering, especially when I saw the so-called refugee crisis was ongoing and it was at its peak in 2015. I looked for opportunities to volunteer, especially because I wanted to set a precedent for my children to say we can show our solidarity now with people that are in trouble, or we can always stay in our comfort zone. And this is not how I want to look back at some point. And I started teaching German in a refugee camp. It's something that I've been doing for almost six years. Then, through this activity, I did a couple of volunteer humanitarian trips to Lesbos in different parts of the Balkans. And after that, I started to look for more opportunities here in Switzerland. I was engaged with an organisation called Architecture For Refugees who wanted to have a more sustainable model, and participated in the programme from Capacity. And that's how I met Capacity because I participated with them. And afterwards, when I was looking for a more stable job again, I had contact with Capacity again. And I started to work in Capacity more formally, in 2017.

 

Claire  05:26

A really fascinating story, so you started as a volunteer. And how about you, Ann Maria?

 

Ana Maria  05:32

Well, I've been living in Switzerland for the last 11 years. But I lived in Geneva for six and a half years. And during that time I had the opportunity to work on causes that I cared about and also do my masters in Geneva. But then in 2015, my husband and I decided to move to Zurich for new opportunities. And actually, I found myself facing challenges that were quite unexpected, given that I had been living in Switzerland for quite some time already. So I found myself looking for a job for a longer period of time, trying to find ways to build my network from scratch. You'll be surprised how little the two regions, the French and the German, talk to each other. So it was a little bit of a challenge. And so while I was in that process of, in a way reinventing myself, I started to consider, you know, learning more about the entrepreneurship world.

 

Ana Maria  06:36

And so I started volunteering there. And I would say the most important volunteering experience from that time was with The Impact Hub, because it was thanks to that opportunity that I started to connect with people from the startup world. And it was then when I was able to meet one of the other co-founders of capacity, and in the team back then. And so I started as a volunteer, and for me when I came into contact with them was a very special time for me, because it was the first time that I had the opportunity to give back to people in such a tangible way, it was very close to my heart because I was an asylum seeker in the United States. So from Colombia, we had to escape to flee the country in 2001. And we moved to the US. And I lived there for 10 years, my family still lives there. There were many challenges that we faced during that time of adaptation and assimilation right out of the culture as well that when I started with Capacity, I was amazed by the many tools and opportunities and support that we could offer to refugees and migrants here. And for me being in a position now to give many of the things that I wish I'd had while I was in that process was very powerful. And, in a way, just really an amazing connection with my purpose that I believe I have in my life, which is to support others, to make an impact, a positive impact in other's lives. So capacity, it has a quite important place in my heart. And it will be like that forever, I think

 

Claire  08:30

Wow, that's amazing. It feels like you came full circle, right? Where you were able to have your shared experience and reach another level. And one of the points, you talked about the co founders of Capacity. When I was looking at your website, again, I kind of counted and I think there were like six or so, but I think your model is a bit special. Can you talk about a bit?

 

Ana Maria  08:54

Yes sure, at the moment, currently, we are seven co founders. We totally understand that for many people, these might be quite surprising or sometimes confusing, or just really impressive to see like a group that big of co-founders. But the reality is that what we try to do is we try to redefine the concept of founder so that we could actually acknowledge all the outstanding contributions that many team members have made along the way. And so for us, really the focus is on the community and the impact that we're having on the community. We want to focus on their issues, their successes, their needs, and we feel that within the team, each team member has a responsibility and we all feel responsible for the success of our participants. So in a way we know that in the startup world this can be a little bit confusing. But it is our way also of, you know, making an impact and perhaps even challenging ways of operating and can be also perhaps an inspiration for other organisations to consider adopting these types of founding models.

 

Claire  10:17

That's very interesting. And I really love to listen to what you're saying, because you're kind of challenging...

 

Ana Maria  10:22

Yes. And something if I may, say, or Isa, perhaps you can, you can talk about it? Is that every year and a half, we take a look, if there is another member whose contributions have been, again, quite outstanding and significant to the direction and growth of the organisation. And so we invite them to become co-founders.

 

Isabel  10:48

To that point Ana Maria said, I think we see the organisation as a growing organism. And it changes and evolves, and the people that maybe were at the beginning are not there anymore, but there are other people that are extremely engaged, and that's where we see how much have they contributed? And how long has this person been engaged? And what is the potential of engagement for the future.

 

Isabel  11:16

So that's why this model is more close to our organisation than mentioning the very, very origins.

 

Ana Maria  11:26

If I may, it can be also a solution for many organisations in the sense that, at the very beginning of Capacity, there were times when some team members wouldn't be invited, let's say, for an interview with the media or participate in a specific event, because perhaps the people looking for some answers didn't come from the co founder. So for us, it was also a solution just to really get going and not have so many obstacles, you know, to keep establishing connections, get the word out about the work we do, and so on. So our targets are the refugees and migrants. And so we build that co-founding model to make it work so that we can advance as much as possible.

 

Claire  12:12

It's really like a down to earth model, I would say. Now, let's come to the organisation, you have the people who enrol as entrepreneurs, you have volunteers, you also have partners. So can you talk about what you offer to entrepreneurs?

 

Ana Maria  12:29

In Capacity, we offer entrepreneurship programmes for people with refugee and migrant backgrounds. And we pretty much support the development of their profit or nonprofit initiatives in Switzerland. They are our main stakeholders or in a way our main beneficiaries. But in the way we work, there's also space - so another group of stakeholders - are volunteers who would like to participate in the programme as mentors or coaches. Actually, we've realised along the way that entrepreneurship is a successful way to engage companies as partners, and promote discussion about inclusion from different perspectives, and in many cases, intersectional perspectives. And so they play a very important role in guiding the development process of the idea, the business that the entrepreneur or the refugee and migrant wants to develop. And then the third stakeholder will be in general, the society.

 

Isabel  13:35

Yeah. And we definitely have an activism behind our work, which is 'advocate for change'. Inclusion is not a one way avenue, but a two way avenue.

 

Ana Maria  13:53

The society itself is quite an important stakeholder. Because through our work, what we're trying to do is to change mindsets, and change stereotypes towards migrants and refugees. And so what we're doing is we're bridging communities that perhaps, you know, if it wasn't for the work that we do would not meet. And we're creating spaces for dialogue, they can have an effect at different levels, they can be like the discussion at the level of the discussion that we're having right now, but also the political level, right, which is quite important to be able to influence important policies and so on.

 

Claire  14:34

To that point, you mentioned your role of activism and advocating for change. You just also talked now about trends and policies. How has that worked for you? I mean by that, how have you helped move that discussion further?

 

Isabel  14:53

We wish we could have more impact in that. But that is something that can take years in changing and I think there has been a lot being done not only by us but other organisations that work in the same field. There are a lot of connections with other organisations that are actively working in the same field that we are, there have been different opportunities to try to change things. For example, we are in a round table with different organisations that are trying to raise awareness about the fact how difficult it is to get an education and the labour market integration as a refugee. And these organisations that are in this roundtable, they are all organisations like ours that work with volunteers. And these organisations, for example, don't have access to the money available from the federal government into the cantonal government, which is in the integration agenda. And we are trying to make the point that it is very fragmented across Switzerland, how it works, but in Zurich it's like that. And so we see there, for example, an obstacle that we are trying to change. On the other hand, Capacity has been attracting the attention of for example, the SEM (Swiss State Secretariat for Migration). Ana Maria was in Paris last year, invited by Bundesrätin Keller Sutter, to the The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) to present Capacity as a good example of integration in Switzerland. So there are efforts or little steps where we can see okay, the interest is there, we were not so long ago, in Bern at the same change comes slowly. But I think we have to keep on doing the work we're doing, trying to move things forward. Despite the fact it can take very long.

 

Claire  16:52

We've talked about challenges with what have been some achievements that you could share here?

 

Ana Maria  16:59

We have several achievements. I mean, in the last six years running Capacity, we are proud, really because it has been with a lot of effort. But we're very proud about graduating 96 entrepreneurs, coming from 48 different countries, actually 51 different countries. That's quite rewarding, really gives us perspective, about the need and about the demand for these kinds of projects. And so for us, it's really in a way even an inspiration to get going and to keep evolving and to keep trying new ideas to respond to the different needs of refugees and migrants based here in Switzerland. Another achievement was just like Isa mentioned before is the opportunity to start taking part in high level meetings. The fact that having our word being recognised by international organisations such as the OECD, or the Swiss government, or actually back in 2018, we were also invited to take part reviewing a policy document about refugee entrepreneurship with different UN agencies, that was also quite a big milestone for us. So that recognition, and that the credibility that we've been building over the years is quite an achievement because we are still quite a small team, but a small team that is achieving big, big things.

 

Claire  18:40

In terms of the companies that you partner with, what has been their feedback, or their experience so far with you, and how do they consider this collaboration with you? Can you talk about that?

 

Isabel  18:53

Our model, our partnership model works in the following way. We have companies partnering with us, and they are the ones that support our programmes so that the programmes are free for the migrants and refugees. The companies that participate with us have been luckily on board for longer time, every year we acquire more partners, but we have long term partnerships, which has been really rewarding because we work with the same people in the companies that we have a relationship with them Ana Maria takes care of those relationships, it's a very positive way to work because at the same time the person that is representing the company and has the relationship with us is the one that usually has to look for the volunteers or open the offering for the volunteers within the company. The volunteers go through a complete experience of acquiring some skills for example, mentoring and coaching, working with vulnerable communities at the same time they get to know a lot about the asylum system. And what are the hurdles for migrants to integrate in Switzerland, they are coached by our team as well. And they have very regular calls with Valentina, who is the one who manages the engagement of all the volunteers. So it is a period of time of three to four months, where the volunteers have a very immersive experience of volunteering. The mentors, mentor the mentees very often as well, and the feedback that we have gotten up to date has been very positive, we are very satisfied and the companies as well sending the employees,

 

Ana Maria  20:48

I think I would add to what Isa just said is that also some of the feedback that we have received is that volunteers coming from companies go through a transformational experience, where they experience a growing respect towards the entrepreneurs, when they kind of like discover each other little by little as they need, they continue to get rid of one layer or two layers until they get to know one another. And so it is quite powerful to watch that mutual growing respect and admiration and energy about developing that business or socio cultural initiative.

 

Isabel  21:28

And to add to what Ana Maria said is that it is our intention with our work, because this is one of the targets that we have is to change minds and to change minds in people that probably have more power to be a change maker in their communities to offer, maybe an internship or a job to refugee or a migrant. That's why we really see the volunteers that participate in our programmes as our secondary target group.

 

Claire  22:01

Yes, that's a very good point. I was just about to ask that, you know, trying to link with a change in the mindset and the effect on society, I can really imagine, you know, this transformational experience that you're describing how it can affect everybody involved in this whole process. If you have someone with a migrant background who wants to be part of your programmes. What does their journey look like?

 

Isabel  22:25

Any person with a migrant or refugee background can apply to Capacity to the different programmes that we offer. For the first programme, the launch programme is a programme around the ideation phase of the business. So the person that applies has to have only an idea, but a very solid idea of what they want to do. I mean, some research in that field would be good, or even a very concrete idea. And then after we receive the applications, we carry out interviews, if the person gets selected, they get a couple of materials from our side. And especially because we want to make sure that the people that get into the programme can make the most out of it, that they are really committed to the programme. Because being a programme that is financed or sponsored, we always want to make sure that the person that gets it can really make the most out of this opportunity. Then we make an orientation about the programme and how they are going to work with their mentors, how they are going to work with the coaches, how the sessions are done. And they have during these couple of months, different workshops that are organised in startup days with the basic concepts about opening a business founding, the business, they are mentored every week, every two weeks, they can reach out to coaches who are specialised in specific topics when the mentor cannot help because mentors of course, they don't know every topic they should develop based in different tasks and milestones they have they should reach and should develop their business up to the point where they should be ready to be prototyping would be the next phase. Normally we do a small final event for each programme, which was not possible I mean, small final event was a big final event in the in the past it at this point with COVID we had to move everything online which then it was not so big, rather, an online event and we hope this year we probably will have to manage with mostly online sessions for the time being. But we hope that we can do all our events as well. And this cycle repeats in the next programme, which is a more advanced and more developed programme for his startups. And in the third one, the people can reach out to coaches. And they have different events where they can really develop their project up to the point of having a solid business plan. The participants have after the first phase, they can decide if they want to continue or not, because entrepreneurship is not for everyone. And it's a tough world.

 

Ana Maria  25:49

Something quite important is that the entrepreneurship programme that Capacity offers is an integral learning experience about entrepreneurship. So what we are doing is, we are in the business of building talent. And so what we are looking at is developing entrepreneurs. And we know that to support that process is not only a matter of giving the tools about business development, but it is also the support at the personal development level, how to deal with stress in your entrepreneurial journey, how to become more resilient, how to build your inner confidence. So there are several elements that are quite important to develop a strong entrepreneur, and that's what Capacity is all about.

 

Claire  26:42

So you're basically, if I understand correctly, addressing different aspects of the individual entrepreneur? Taking the person as a whole, giving them the resources to support their idea. So that also they learn the process if they don't know what entrepreneurship is about. But also developing personally, when you face difficulties, what do you do? Or you know where to find resources on your own as well. So it's really like a multi level approach that is correct?

 

Ana Maria  27:14

Absolutely, I would say with confidence that the Capacity intrapreneurship programme is like no other. What makes it so special is really these support at different levels, multi dimensional support that we provide

 

Isabel  27:30

To that point, I will just add that we are not interested so much in building startups or businesses. That's not our goal. We are interested in building people as Ana Maria was saying. So if a person that goes through the programme, learns some skills that are transferable to other areas of his or her life. For example, if a person finds a job because of the network she acquires or can go to a further education programme, that's already a success for us. Because that's what we want to have is people developing their potential further, not necessarily having successful businesses.

 

Claire  28:19

That's really powerful and very beautiful. I love it. So looking forward, now we're starting a new year 2021. This might be like a really large question. But what are the main focuses or where is capacity headed now?

 

Ana Maria  28:32

We have big dreams, we've never been scared of dreaming. And we're a small organisation. But as we continue to grow, and we enter our sixth year of running the organisation, in addition to the entrepreneurship programme, we have developed a new programme around market labour integration that we are looking to implement. And so we are actively looking for companies who would like to take part in it to co-create and sponsor it. That's one of our big goals this year. So this is an open invitation to anybody or everybody who is listening to us right now. If you'd like to learn more about it, get in touch with us. And we'll be happy to share all the details.

 

Isabel  29:19

Apart from the labour market integration track that Ana Maria was mentioning, we would like to take the next step which is scaling Capacity to the next level, not only geographically to be able to offer our programmes in different parts of Switzerland, but we're really thinking of opening the programmes into a whole academy that can be attended by people who want to learn from different sets of skills within the programmes or if they have one topic that they would like to learn more about. We have applied for a grant to be able to make it a reality. That would be the bigger dream.

 

Claire  30:07

This is really wonderful. And I admire the work you're doing. And I have been doing my research as well. But this conversation has really opened up my whole horizon and perspective. And I find it really, really great what you're doing for your organisation. So congratulations. All your co founders, not only you, but everyone.

 

Ana Maria  30:26

And I would say that in addition to the co founders to the co founders, but also the volunteers, because it is really thanks to not only the volunteers who take part in the programme as mentors or coaches, but really the volunteers who engage with us at the organisational level who volunteer their time, and actually it is in great part thanks to them that we continue to grow at quote a fast pace. So we definitely give a lot of credit to the volunteers that we're lucky to have.

 

Claire  30:59

So before we move to the last part, do you have anything you'd like to add that you think is relevant for anybody listening?

 

Ana Maria  31:08

We have a few call to actions. So right now we are recruiting for our entrepreneurship programme, phase one, which is called The Lounge, and we will have an information session on the third of February. You can all follow Capacity on social media. So Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn to get all the details in the application deadline is on the 12th of February, and the second call to action. If you're interested, curious and would like to receive more information about our labour market integration programme called Access, Contact us info@capacityzurich.ch

 

Claire  31:51

So for the last part, I like for my guests to share some of their favourite music or their favourite books. three short questions. Are you ready?

 

Isabel  32:03

Yes,

 

Claire  32:04

Question number one, do you have a song that you're constantly listening to these days? Or what is the book that you're reading right now? So Ana Maria, go ahead.

 

Ana Maria  32:14

Yes, the song that I I always turn to at some point is actually from Shakira, Ready For The Good Times. I like crossover music, but I like, as you know, the beat of the song. And the lyrics are fun.

 

Claire  32:30

And how about you Isabel? Do you have a song? Or is it a book that you want to share with us?

 

Isabel  32:34

I am reading a book, which is called The Body A Guide For Occupants by Bill Bryson. And it is about how the body works. I think it is right now even more relevant that people read this kind of scientific literature in a very easy and fun way. And it has a lot of different pieces of history of medicine and interesting facts about the body. So I think it's fascinating.

 

Ana Maria  33:08

There's a book called The Creative Habit, and it is by Twyla Tharp. And I thought for me, you know, during COVID times, I thought that I really need to connect more with my creativity. And this book is brilliant, in just how you can apply it to every single aspect of your life. Yeah, just full of energy that only creativity gives you.

 

Claire  33:31

That sounds really fascinating. And something I think we could all use right now! Question two: is there a song or an artist, or perhaps a book that particularly resonated with you at a specific time in your life? So this time is a good first...

 

Isabel  33:46

I have an album, The Division Bell from Pink Floyd, who has really accompanied me forever. It's an album that I can hear 100 times at every stage of my life, and I will always like it somehow. It's a classic for me, and it's going to be classic forever.

 

Claire  34:06

And how about you Ana Maria?

 

Ana Maria  34:08

Well, he actually passed away already. But there was this Argentinian singer, Gustavo Cerati.. I've always been a huge fan of his. And there's this specific song that is called Magia that in English translates to magic. It's my go to song, a pick me up song. And I listened to that song every single day different times a day when I moved to Zurich, and I was in this new phase where I was looking to reinvent myself and transform myself and that song is beautiful.

 

Claire  34:48

Third, and last question. What is your all time favourite album or your all time favourite book that you absolutely recommend? Ana Maria?

 

Ana Maria  34:58

for me would be Oasis and their album What's The Story Morning Glory. Fully recommend it if you're into English rock and it actually it's quite similar to bands like Blur or even The Beatles at some point. They have a great influence on their music. I absolutely love that album.

 

Claire  35:21

And Isabel, what do you recommend?

 

Isabel  35:23

I read a book a couple of years ago. It's a relatively recent book, which I like a lot. It is Educated from Tara Westover, I would definitely recommend it.

 

Claire  35:34

Why would you recommend it?

 

Isabel  35:36

It is a book about a girl who was not educated, but living in a very fundamentalist community in the United States and has an incredible story about how education transformed her. And it is extremely touching. It's a real story and how she managed to go out and see the world with different eyes after her education.

 

Ana Maria  36:06

So one of the songs that really stayed in my mind last year, during fall, was the music from Claudia Masika. She participated in the programme last year in the boost programme. She's an artist, she's fantastic. She's a designer, and also a singer. And there's this song that is called Makia - I believe it means queen, and she wrote this song to her daughter, you can actually find her music on Spotify, and her voice, the African beats, the vibe, her vibe is just fantastic. So I want to invite people to discover her.

 

Claire  36:51

That's a beautiful invitation. And I will make sure that there is a link to her music and all the music and the books that you just mentioned as well in the show notes. So Ana Maria, Isabel thank you so very much for taking the time this afternoon to talk with me, it has been an absolute pleasure to get to know you better, to learn more about your story and most importantly, to learn about what Capacity is doing, not only your team, but also the people who are volunteering and I can only say again and repeat that I admire everything you're doing. And thank you for that.

 

Ana Maria  37:24

It was a fun, reflective conversation. So thank you for the opportunity and we hope to stay in touch with you.

 

Isabel  37:32

Thank you very much.

 

Claire  37:40

That was episode five, a conversation with Ana Maria Angarita and Isabel Brücherand, two inspiring women. I am grateful to have recently met Ana Maria and Isabel are role models and leaders through the impactful work they carry out at Capacity. Thank you for tuning in today and listening to the episode. I really appreciate you taking the time. You will find all the links and relevant information from this episode on the podcast page. Here is the reference narratives-of-purpose.podcastpage.io. Until the next episode, take care of yourselves stay well and stay inspired