On Holding Space for Women in the Workplace - Women's Health Series with Fatoumata Ly

Episode Transcript

[00:00:11] Claire: Is the healthcare system failing women? What do you think? Welcome to a brand-new episode of Narratives of Purpose.

This is a five-episode special series which is dedicated to female founders advancing women's health. Featuring my conversations with the Voices for Change panellists at the first AI for Life Summit which took place in Geneva, Switzerland in December 2023.

Revolutionising Reproductive Mental Health

[00:00:39] Fatoumata: It's interesting because no matter the size of the company, even when it's Coming from C-level, there's a fear of backlash, and when they see that there are 200 people who register for a masterclass on fertility in their company, they're like, wow. And they realise, I had no idea I would have so many people.

And it's interesting because once they see these numbers, they're like, there's something. And the feedback has been great. One company we work with actually asked us to help them build an ambassador program.

[00:01:16] Claire: In this episode, I speak with Fatoumata Ly, co-founder of Ninti. Ninti is a digital platform that helps employers create supportive work environments and prioritise reproductive mental health. Ninti also helps individuals balance their reproductive health needs with professional responsibilities.

Introducing the Host and the Podcast

[00:01:38] Claire: If you are listening to Narratives of Purpose for the first time, let me introduce myself. My name is Claire Murigande. I am your host on this podcast, which is all about amplifying social impact. I bring you unique stories of change makers, stories of people who are contributing to make a difference in society. And by showcasing these individual journeys, I would like to inspire you to take action.

Please take a moment to rate and review our show. This will help other listeners find narratives of purpose and further amplify the stories of impact that we share.

For now, listen to Fatoumata's journey and her endeavours to hold space for women in the workplace.

Fatoumata's Journey to Founding Ninti

[00:02:26] Claire: First of all, thank you for organising this panel at the AI for Life conference. I mean, it's absolutely amazing. I've been speaking to most of the founders already. And, uh, like I've been doing on my podcast, I really like to speak to people who are changing things, who are already seeing issues and taking it upon them to make a difference.

The discussion was really amazing, but now it's my turn to learn more about Ninti. So, Fatoumata, uh, please introduce yourself briefly and tell us why you founded Ninti.

[00:02:51] Fatoumata: Absolutely. Thank you, Claire, for offering this opportunity. My name is Fatoumata Ly, and I co-founded Ninti with Olga two years ago. After Um, going through my personal health care journey and Olga going through several misdiagnoses linked to endometriosis. Me embarking on a fertility journey. Also talking to so many women during that time that were going through really hard times. And I remember we were just talking, and we were like, we live in this world where there's so much happening, so much progress, it's so modern. Yet when it comes to sexual and reproductive health and to women's health in general, this uterus, whatever you want to call it, that's been there forever. We haven't really done any progress.

This is also what struck me during the panel. It's really like, we are still talking about diagnosis, not even about treatments. We realised, okay, this is what we were talking about. And we felt like we needed to do something about it. Um, like all the women that were on the panel. And, um, I just feel like it's interesting that women who need care are the same people who are actually trying to find solutions when they actually need care. And they just need to sleep and rest and be taken care of. So also, something out there.

Ninti's Mental Health Care Pathway

[00:04:12] Fatoumata: And at Ninti we built a woman's mental health pathway. So basically, it's a care pathway of four weeks at the intersection of mental health and women's health. So basically, if you're firmly going through a traumatic event linked to sexual health, whether it's an abortion, a fertility journey, miscarriages, you will find tools to help you walk through the fire.

And the idea is to say, all these moments are punctual, yet they are transformative, and they are really important. And they leave a footprint forever in your life. And very often you don't have keys to walk through that fire. So that's why we are trying to build solutions through a woman's mental health care pathway.

So, we personalise mental health to women's health.

[00:04:57] Claire: And when did you start that?

[00:04:58] Fatoumata: The mental care pathway, we started working on it in September this year. So, we actually got a grant from the European commission. That funded the, uh, first, uh, pilots, the cohorts. So, we actually did our first pilots last week.

[00:05:13] Claire: Oh, wow.

[00:05:14] Fatoumata: So, it's very recent.

[00:05:14] Claire: Very recent, yeah.

[00:05:15] Fatoumata: And it was an amazing four weeks with the women. They really enjoyed it. It was really helpful. And we just believe in the power of the group as well because they have access to journaling tools. They have access to content, but they also have access to circles, and they can talk to women going through a similar journey and the fact of identifying and understanding that, oh, I am not alone in this. It creates a radical shift.

[00:05:41] Claire: And that's an important point because I was also speaking to one of the panellists, and she was mentioning that, you know, for so long we haven't been talking about that. Obviously, there's the societal aspect, you know, whether men, women, and so on, but also among women, right?

However you're educated, your culture, you name it, you know, where you're working, where you live, sometimes it's also, you think that you go through that alone. So, I think it's actually great to have these circles where you can open up and speak safely. And it's also one step through the healing process.

[00:06:13] Fatoumata: Exactly. Yeah, you break the isolation. And one thing that was really moving on that panel is that at some point, even though every experience was different, there was a universal common sharing of shame and pain and suffering and the fact that they could see that they were not alone was already making them feel better. Like, I'm not alone. I'm not crazy. I'm not a loser. You know, like I'm in this cohort of 10 other women and they are all going through the same thing. And the fact of hearing it, it just changed the dynamics, and it just really makes you feel better, and contributes to building your confidence, to building back that confidence. And I hope that we can really offer it to as many women as possible.

[00:06:59] Claire: That's a good point. I was going to ask you actually, who is your target group? Do you reach out to women individually or you work, for instance, with the employers as well, because you were mentioning fertility journey, and I know it's becoming a, even menopause, perimenopause, right, is becoming a topic that's more and more out there and even employers are addressing that.

So, who are you working with really?

Ninti's B2B2C Model: Partnering with Employers for Change

[00:07:18] Fatoumata: So, we are a B2B2C model. So basically, we work with employers in order to create awareness because our belief is that women are a leading force in our communities and our societies. They contribute to our economies. They are the backbone of our societies, and they are in the company, they work with employers, but the workplace has been built in a very flat cycle never really taking into account specificities.

Very often they think, oh, if I focus on women's health, I'm going to exclude, I'm going to discriminate, which is a word they use often. So, we build awareness so they understand you can focus on women's health. And once the awareness is built, we do workshops with them, masterclasses. Once the awareness is built, then we can offer as well to support employees through our mental care pathway. So, this is something they can offer.

On the other hand, we also have women who come, um, through direct channels to us. Our last cohort, we did a call for application. So, we said, hey, we are doing this like a women's mental care pathway. If you are going through a hard fertility journey right now, and you feel like you need support, you can apply, and we will select 10 people. And the response was really overwhelming. Women just were, they were applying. They were like, I need this. I want this. And we are actually renewing it because we can feel that there is a need. Um, the challenge we have is we have this group aspect of it. It's: how do we scale it? It's a bit of a challenge.

Scaling Ninti's Impact

[00:08:49] Claire: And what has been the impact so far, I suppose now in terms of feedback, whether directly from the participants on these group sessions that you had, or even employers.

[00:08:57] Fatoumata: So, employers, it's, it's interesting because they always are a little bit like walking on eggs because they feel like I'm doing this, but I will let you do it. It's interesting because no matter the size of the company, even when it's coming from C-level, there's a seer of backlash and when they see that there are 200 people who register for a masterclass on fertility in their company, they're like “wow”, and they realise “I had no idea I would have so many people”. And it's interesting because once they see these numbers, they're like, there's something.

And the feedback has been great. One company we work with actually asked us to help them build an ambassador program. So, what we do is, just like in women's health, we feel like there's no one size fits all approach. So, companies’ cultures are very unique and very different, so we like to collaborate and co create with them and see what's the right tool that would fit the right culture. And these are things we just discuss with HR leaders, and also managers and directors directly.

On the cohort side, with the woman coming to us directly, they just love the program. The feedback is, it's too short, that we need to improve ourselves because it was too short. So that's really nice. When I get out of them, I'm just like, I'm really happy. It's like, you know, that you've given them tools that they will be able to use in the workplace, in their households. With their social network, their entourage, their families that will help them walk through the fire when they are in that fire.

[00:10:34] Claire: And speaking of scaling, so, you are now only based in France. Or do you also work outside of France?

[00:10:40] Fatoumata: So, we are European. So basically, the cohort we ended was, we had a woman from Ireland, we had one from Turkey. We had one from Spain, France, one from New York, actually.

[00:10:53] Claire: So, it's quite international.

[00:10:54] Fatoumata: Exactly. Which is the magic of online communities, it’s that when you do it in English, you gather and you reach out to more people and people who need it, they can find you. And that's the idea, whenever you have to walk through that fire, when you need Ninti, Ninti will be there, and you can find Ninti. So, it's the magic of the internet.

The AI for Life Summit: A Platform for Change

[00:11:16] Claire: And coming back to the summit, today's conference, I'm curious to know, you know, you brought this panel together. What was really your objective for this panel, have these specific voices, and what was the message you wanted to convey to the audience?

[00:11:28] Fatoumata: You know, this panel was really a meeting with, uh, Stéphanie, a conversation that led to a call where we were just like sharing, you know, of yes, this subject matters. And, um, if we can bring voices and awareness, um, in different platforms, it would be great. And she offered the opportunity to do it. And I thought exactly of Alia, Danielle, Elise, and Sasha, and they all said yes. And it was really simple. And I think it's because, you know, we all need that sense of community because what we do is really hard.

And the message was really: build awareness. It's interesting because I was talking to this lady out there. She was like, “what you did was amazing. I saw a lot of uncomfortable men out there”. I don't know what made her think they were uncomfortable, but I thought, interesting. And I was like, you know, maybe that was the goal, not to make people uncomfortable, but to give a new lens on things and put people outside of their comfort zone on a subject that really touches half of humanity.

[00:12:30] Claire: I'm always surprised to hear, like, you know, on the panel, even in different places where I say it's a niche market, but to be honest, it's probably the largest market in the world. It's at least half of the population. So how can it be niche when it's the backbone of society?

[00:12:43] Fatoumata: Exactly. But yeah, so I think the goal was first to create awareness, bring together bring together women I admire, who work ethically, intelligent, uh empathy, vulnerability, and also maybe leave people with a sense of not duty because I don't want people to feel like, oh, we need to do this, but I wanted them to feel inspired to do better, you know.

I think if we achieved that, that for me is a great goal. And also, even just between us, we were all sharing. Oh my God, it was, you know, we've been together since yesterday evening. And we were like, it was so uplifting, so nice, because what we're doing is so hard and just being together was really nice.

The Future of Women's Health and Innovation

[00:13:24] Claire: And my last question is, if you look a bit into the future, how do you see this whole field evolving? There's obviously more awareness, discussions are being opened up. Maybe 20 years ago, nobody would speak about endometriosis at work, menopause, and so on. I mean, I studied science, biology. I didn't know what to expect when perimenopause comes, and now I'm here, like, trying to find solutions on my own, but obviously I speak to people, I have a network, but that shouldn't be the case.

So how do you see, you know, this women's health perhaps in general, but also patient-led innovation? Because we speak a lot about healthcare, AI and tech. What is your outlook?

[00:14:01] Fatoumata: So, I always think of perspective and the name Ninti comes from the Sumerian civilization, which is the first civilization of humankind. They were the innovators of progress, technology, science. And I always think of remembering where we come from and where we are today.

So, I'm pretty hopeful for the future. And I think that what we are building right now is a continuity of progress and change, in a better good for humankind as a whole. And that what you are building will last for generations, and one day, a young girl, in any country, would not have to think of her periods as something shameful, would not have to deal with pain and hide it. Because it will be normalised, just like we normalise today, mixed couples being together, which was forbidden, like decades ago in some countries, you know. And I think this is the evolution. So, it takes time and maybe I will not see it from my living, but I believe that this is where we are going forward.

And when it comes to technology, AI and healthcare, I think there will be great progress to come. But I think as well, there's still a lot of things to figure out. And I think that the biggest challenge will be how do you make sure that you do not create harm? And today I think that no one has the answer, not yet.

So, I hope that collectively as innovators, scientists, technologists, people from humanities as well, we need them as much, will build this path. So that we make sure that everything we build does not create harm when it comes to health and AI. I'm very hopeful that AI will transform and support a lot of things. But at the same time, I'm being mindful of, we should be reminded of not creating harm and it will happen. I'm a very naive and idealist person, and I really believe that we can make it happen.

[00:15:59] Claire: Great. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you for taking the time.

Closing Remarks and Further Resources

[00:16:07] Claire: The healthcare system has indeed been failing women. Did you know that historically, medical research has often excluded women? They entered clinical trials only in 1993. 80 percent of the drugs removed from the U. S. market between 1997 and 2000 were withdrawn because of side effects that occurred mainly or exclusively in women. Women's health has also been considered a niche area. Mind you, women account for roughly 50 percent of the world's population.

Now, that being said, things are starting to change. More and more women are advocating for their own health needs. They are creating impactful solutions with proactive and inclusive approaches. I truly believe that patients' lived experiences should be at the core of healthcare innovation. And let's not forget that there is a huge need to fund startups led by women. In fact, according to research by the European investment bank in the US alone, just 2 percent of investments in startups are for women led ventures. Although 38 percent of startup founders are women. These are really staggering numbers.

[00:17:25] Claire: If you are curious to learn more from some of our previous guests who addressed these issues, check out episodes number 22, 38, 42, and 63. Focusing on women's health, as well as episodes number one, 11, 33 and 60 discussing the gender funding gap and impact investing.

Thank you so much for tuning in today. I appreciate you taking the time. That was my conversation with Fatoumata Ali. At the first AI for life summit, you'll find more information about Ninti and their website at www.nintihealth.com that's N I N T I H E A L T H. com. Be sure to listen to the other episodes. Of this special series featuring my interviews with the four panellists of “Voices for Change: Women's Health and Patient Experiences”.

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend, with a colleague, or even with a family member. And don't forget to leave us a review on our website using this short link www.bit.ly/narrativesofpurpose. You can connect with us anytime and follow our activities through our LinkedIn and Instagram handles at narratives of purpose podcast. Until the next episode, take care of yourselves, stay well, and stay inspired.

[00:19:00] Claire: This episode was created in collaboration with Stephanie Trang at Artefact Open Innovation Switzerland. This podcast series was written and hosted by Claire Murigande. This podcast was edited and produced by Tom Evan Hughes at Rustic Studios.