On Humanising Clinical Trials with AI - Women's Health Series with Danielle Ralic

Episode Transcript

[00:00:11] Claire: Is the healthcare system failing women? What do you think?

Welcome to a brand-new episode of Narratives of Purpose. This is a five-episode special series, which is dedicated to female founders, advancing women's health, featuring my conversations with the Voices for Change panellists at the First, AI for Life Summit, which took place in Geneva, Switzerland in December 2023.

The Critical Role of Women in Clinical Trials

[00:00:42] Danielle: Uh, the second was raising awareness about the issue that we have in clinical trials is we don't have a lot of great data when we don't invite women to studies. Not inviting women to studies means they don't have access to some of these therapies. I mean, again, therapies can save you from losing organs, especially with cancer. So it's just so important that they have access, and that we have data, and we're looking at treatments for the big population.

[00:01:08] Claire: In this episode, I speak with Danielle Ralic. Danielle is the CEO and founder of Ancora.ai, an award-winning AI powered clinical trial matching platform that supports cancer research with a patient first technology. Ancora's mission is to democratise access to clinical trials and accelerate research.

Introducing the Host and the Podcast

[00:01:32] Claire: If you are listening to Narratives of Purpose for the first time, let me introduce myself. My name is Claire Murigande. I am your host on this podcast, which is all about amplifying social impact. I bring you unique stories of change makers, stories of people who are contributing to make a difference in society. And by showcasing these individual journeys, I would like to inspire you to take action.

Please take a moment to rate and to review our show. This will help other listeners find narratives of purpose and further amplify the stories of impact that we share.

For now, listen to Danielle talk about healthcare innovation and how tech can support a more inclusive access to clinical trials.

The Genesis of Ancora.ai

[00:02:26] So, Danielle, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for joining me. So, we're here at the AI for Life conference and you are part of the panel discussing women's health and patient led innovation. So, can you please just briefly introduce yourself and tell me about Anchor.ai and why did you start this company?

[00:02:42] Danielle: So, I'm originally from Boston. I studied information systems with a specialty in healthcare IT because I saw one of the first electronic medical record implementations and it really sparked so much wonder and passion in me seeing what we could do with technology and healthcare to help people lead better, healthier lives. And um, I wanted to be a part of that, and I think it's one of the most beautiful things we can do, is to help people live better.

So, I spent my career, uh, chasing that. So I worked in Boston, Los Angeles and Zurich building technology solutions and business intelligence solutions for hospitals, for our public health department, and for pharma. And essentially saw this was amazing innovation, especially on the therapeutic side, what was happening in oncology at the time. Um, I had access to really amazing technologies. So, we got to build predictive models on some of the top tech at the time. Um, but I also saw personally just what real healthcare looks like in terms of family and friends, um, their experiences, my own experiences.

And when I saw a family member get diagnosed with cancer, and eight miles north of Boston, uh, no one offering or inviting her to trials, uh, really has struck me how we can talk about amazing innovation, but we're leaving so many people behind. And I really think tech should be one of those enablers that should bring more people with us and not the opposite. And that's why I started Ancora.

[00:04:05] Claire: Okay. So, what is Ancora exactly? You mentioned about clinical trials and knowing someone who was not invited to participate in trials. And obviously this conference is all about tech and AI and that's your background as well. So, what is Ancora exactly and what does it do?

The Power of AI in Democratising Clinical Trials

[00:04:20] Danielle: Yeah, so Ancora was basically born out of me looking at www.clinicaltrials.gov or public registries trying to find these clinical trial options to make sure we were really getting the best option for my family and for friends as well. And so, it was born out of that need, and what it does is it just helps people quickly look up clinical trial information, and that sounds very simple, but, um, it's very difficult to do so.

So basically, we use natural language processing, which is a form of technology that takes advantage of what we know about linguistics, and kind of encodes that, and we use statistical methods to help us analyse text. So, we can ingest a ton of data, which is clinical trial information, um, which is traditionally pages long that you'd have to read through one at a time to see what's in here that's maybe interesting for me.

And so, we use this natural language processing model to help us restructure and harmonise clinical trial information. So that way, if you answer a few questions on our website, which is basically about the type of cancer you have or your loved one has, um, prior therapies you may have had. that we can help you find relevant trial options. So that way, really, anyone who can access the digital world or the internet, answer a few questions and just get to these options they can bring to their doctor or doctors can do this and make sure they're thinking about all trial options for their patients.

And again, it's just because there's amazing things that are in trials that can save people a lot of the toxic side effects. It can save people from surgery. It could save people's lives. But not everyone has equal access and it's very privileged right now who does have access to this. Anyway, I think tech can be this amazing kind of democratizer if we do it right. And I think a lot of the things that are scary that I see about Gen AI, all these headlines, is: are we building this AI, right? And that's responsibly and ethically. And that's what I'm paying close attention to.

[00:06:08] Claire: And that's actually the premise right for Ancora.ai to make sure that everybody can benefit from AI. And you just mentioned in your explanation that anybody can go in there, but also physicians can use it. So why and how do you want to reach all these different stakeholders?

Bridging the Gap: Ancora's Dual Approach for Patients and Physicians

[00:06:22] Danielle: When we first started, I built the patient site because I built it for my use case: so if I'm looking for someone. And then I thought, oh gosh, you know, this isn't how it should be done because it's so much of a lift to ask patients to really be empowered to think about their care, especially when you have a cancer diagnosis, you're scared, you're tired. So I didn't want to build the patient site. So I kind of gave up on it. And I thought, yeah, this will just be oncologists and nurses, you know, this is what they really want.

And then I learned about the healthcare system and our current incentives and how they're not always incentivized, or a lot of people don't have the time, they don't have the resources, the staff. So I built, uh, the oncologist version and then actually kind of put it away for a little bit because we just couldn't get people to use it. AI was also scary a few years ago when we first deployed it. So it was, oh, AI can't tell me what to do. We would have to have this one-hour session with them. Oh, this is how we use AI. We're not recommending anything. It's just curated information. So really try to bring people along and I think that's super important.

So, while it, it took us a long time and now we have these two portals so one for patients to go directly and that's public and free and in multiple languages. Uh, the physician one you have to register with us and then we can ask more questions. It's more detailed. It's more information. But yeah, the, both of them have taken a little bit to build, but it's been a lot of kind of co-development because I think if you don't engage the physicians as you're building it and then just drop it on their desk and say, Oh great, I've built this for you. No one cares. So it's been a journey, but I think. That's an important journey.

[00:07:53] Claire: So you mentioned you've been working on this for a while now.

The Impact and Evolution of Ancora

[00:07:55] Claire: So when did you start? And especially since you started, what has been the impact so far? Have you seen benefits from what you've created and especially along the way, how have you been evolving the product, you know, from all the feedback? You spoke about co-creation, for example.

[00:08:09] Danielle: It did take a while. I started working on it in 2017, but I wasn't sure if the NLP or the natural language processing models would work on this kind of data because it's very, um, unstructured, shorthand, jargon heavy. Not really like the best ideal data set for NLP. But we started to have initial kind of wins in terms of it was able to recognize mutations, things like that. So then we thought, okay, we've got something and then we've been iterating that over time.

Then I wasn't sure how many patients would actually use this. I'm like, am I the only crazy one who's doing this? You know, and who else would offer their information and look for trials? And that's been, I think, one of the most surprising things, is that there is a large group of people, and I'm using the word patient, but I really mean anyone who's been diagnosed, but we have wives, daughters, sons, you name it. I mean, the whole family unit's involved, especially when it's a cancer diagnosis.

And, um, we recently actually analysed the data because we wanted to see, we heard from a lot of doctors that patients wouldn't be able to answer the questions, patients don't care, et cetera. So we were curious and we were like, let's look and create an impact report. And we just published it a few months ago, but it was amazing to see, like, how many people finish the questions. And then we ask at the end, are you here because you're looking to join a trial in the next six months? And 67 percent say yes. And then we ask, what is the reason for your search today? And they can just do a free text field. And people volunteer their information and it's things like, I'm on the last approved therapy and I don't know what's next. Or I'm out of options. My symptoms are horrible. I'm looking for any relief.

So you see people really intentionally using it. They understand it and they want to find trials. And, um, one is in Spanish, someone wrote to us, thank you so much, uh, for access to this information. I mean, I read these responses and honestly, I just had a good cry after. But it's such fuel to know that, you know, something that you built in your home or in your office and you don't really know what that impact is. So to see it, you know, really in front of you is like all the fire you need to keep going. So it's been things like that. And the patients that work with us and the patient groups are like, yes, this is so important.

We even had a patient come up to us in a conference and tell us, um, in tears. And she's so excited to see this because she's lost so many colleagues and friends to the disease. And she was trying to be on top of all of the research and it was really hard to do so. And she's like, gosh, if I had this, like, could I have helped more people?

And that's the impact that I think is really amazing. And I hope we can only continue to do, but it definitely takes a village. It takes the oncologist to partner with us. It takes patient groups to work with us and help because we have to do a lot of education as well. I think all of that's so important because we have to, again, bring everybody with us and we continually ask for feedback. We try to put something new in every month. So we're trying to listen and move as fast as we can, but it's been such a beautiful, beautiful thing.

So I built a lot of AI before, like launching a product in a market and doing sequence optimization, like it's an interesting tech, but you don't feel an impact to it. And this one, you really, you see it.

Advocating for Women's Health and Inclusion in AI

[00:11:07] Claire: And going back to the conference here today in Geneva, you were on this panel, right, speaking about women's health, but also patient-led innovation. So what were your objectives on this panel, and perhaps more importantly, what was the message you wanted to convey to the audience?

[00:11:19] Danielle: Yeah, I think one for me on the women's health side is that, you know, we don't give it enough weight. And recently, it's been this FemTech popularity, but it's a lot of men also driving FemTech and it just really kind of drives me nuts. But, that's why the panel, I loved it. It was women who experienced things, who know this inside and out, bringing innovations that impact so many people. So that to me is amazing.

So I think we need more messages like that of: believe these women, fund these women and let's get these products to market because they're going to make amazing differences.

Uh, the second was raising awareness about the issue that we have in clinical trials. Because we don't have a lot of great data when we don't invite women to studies. Not inviting women to studies means they don't have access to some of these therapies. I mean, again, therapies can save you from losing organs, especially with cancer. So it's just so important that they have access and that we have data and we're looking at treatments for the big population. So those are the main ones.

And the third one is that all men talking about Gen AI and women need to talk about Gen AI. And we need to talk about AI in the context of bias and making sure more people are included as we build this. You know, I've gone to a lot of these tech events, we talk a lot about AI, and it is mostly white men, and we need to change that because they're just missing these perspectives. And as we see with Gen AI, it's making more and more decisions, it's becoming more and more a part of how we work and live, and if women aren't at the table, if everybody isn't at the table, then we're building a pretty weird world.

[00:12:47] Claire: And it's actually important that you mention that because that was my first impression in the first session today at the talk. It was really a list of what generative AI can do and it was amazing. But then I caught myself thinking, wait a minute, this is just making our current lives easier. But not solving the issues of the healthcare system as it is, including inclusivity and, you know, representation, as you were saying, not enough women in Gen AI and so on, in the tech space, but also, you know, who is programming this, right? If you don't have that live experience, obviously you can't bring in that input in the system. So it does make sense in the end, right?

[00:13:22] Danielle: Exactly.

The Future of Women in Tech and Healthcare Innovation

[00:13:23] Claire: My final question is, obviously you've mentioned about, you know, representation and having more women at the table and discussing. What is your outlook? How do you see this moving further, you know, from today?

Obviously, there's still a lot to do, but are you still positive, hopeful? You know, how do you see this space evolving, basically?

[00:13:40] Danielle: I guess being on the startup side of things, I've seen a lot of amazing women with amazing companies, and I've seen them struggle to get funding. And what Fatou mentioned is this is a niche market. What about the men? I hear that over and over again. And then you'll see a man pitching how they're going to help women track their periods, and this happens all the time, and they'll get the funding, or pinky gloves in Berlin, I think was like the epitome of just stupidity. So that's something that I haven't seen changing much, and that's where I maybe have the most angst watching that.

But the hope is that I keep meeting all these women who are pushing no matter what, and the odds are against us. We don't have the resources, we don't have the support, but all of these events, I mean, being on that panel, that is like, oh, just like breathing fire. Like, you just see these passionate women who will make it, like, they will deliver what they want to do because they have that passion, resilience, motivation.

And, um, that is my hope, is that there's still women standing up trying to make change. And of course, lots of other great people too, but I'm a big feminist, so I have to call out the women, especially today. But that is my hope. We will change the future.

[00:14:42] Claire: Excellent. Thank you so much.

Closing Remarks and Further Resources

[00:14:48] Claire: The healthcare system has indeed been failing women. Did you know that historically, medical research has often excluded women? They entered clinical trials only in 1993. 80 percent of the drugs removed from the U. S. market between 1997 and 2000 were withdrawn because of side effects that occurred mainly or exclusively in women. Women's health has also been considered a niche area. Can you imagine that? Women account for roughly 50 percent of the world's population.

Now that being said, things are starting to change. More and more women are advocating for their own health needs. They are creating impactful solutions with proactive and inclusive approaches. I truly believe that patients’ lived experiences should be at the core of healthcare innovation. Also, let's not forget that there is a huge need to fund startups led by women. In fact, according to research by the European Investment Bank, in the US alone, just 2 percent of investments in startups are for women led ventures. Although 38 percent of startup founders are women. These are really staggering numbers.

[00:14:48] Claire: If you're curious to learn more from our previous guests addressing these issues, do check out episodes number 22, 38, 42, and 63, focusing on women's health, as well as episodes number one, 11, 33, and 60 discussing the gender funding gap and impact investing.

Thank you so much for tuning in today. I appreciate you taking the time. That was my conversation with Daniel Ralic at the first AI for Life Summit. You'll find more information about Ancora.ai on their website at www.ancora.ai. That's A N C O R A dot A I. Be sure to listen to the other episodes of this special series featuring my interviews with the four panellists of “Voices for Change, Women's Health and Patient Experiences”.

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend, with a colleague, or even with a family member. And don't forget to leave us a review on our website using this short link, www.bit.ly/narrativesofpurpose. You can connect with us anytime and follow our activities through our LinkedIn and Instagram handles at narratives of purpose podcast. Until the next episode, take care of yourselves. Stay well and stay inspired.

[00:17:45] Claire:  This episode was created in collaboration with Stephanie Tang at Artefact Open Innovation Switzerland. This podcast series was written and hosted by Claire Murigande. This podcast was edited and produced by Tom Evan Hughes at Rustic Studios.